Can U.S. automakers compete with cheap cars from China?

We should see. We don't need an engine anymore, so now they can have free energy. Even if these tariffs were successful, is there a world where they could backfire on the US auto industry, slowing down the push to all electric or driving consumer resentment over high vehicle prices? Here to discuss that is Yasi Levy. He's founder and CEO of CAR dealership Guy. Yasi, it's great to have you here. What's your take on all of this? I mean, kind of that point Michael was making is if the world is going in this direction of cheap Chinese EVs that are evidently of fine quality, what happens if the US is not part of that?

我们应该看一看。我们不再需要引擎了，因此现在他们可以拥有自由能源。即使这些关税成功了，是否会有一个世界会对美国汽车工业造成反效果，减缓向全电动推进或引发消费者对高昂车价的不满？在这里与我们讨论这个问题的是雅西·莱维。他是汽车经销商“Guy”的创始人兼CEO。雅西，很高兴你在这里。你对这一切有什么看法？我是说，迈克尔提出的那个观点是，如果世界朝着廉价中国电动汽车的方向发展，而这些汽车显然质量良好，那么如果美国不参与进来会发生什么？

Yeah, look, on one hand, these tariffs, while there's no Chinese cars being imported today, they do protect US jobs. So that's one side of it. The other side of it you could say is that it's actually inflationary for consumers. So it does not benefit consumers at all. It's not how our free market should operate. If you really think about it, I do agree with Michael that long term Chinese cars will enter the United States. I speak to lots of dealers and it seems like everyone is concerned about Mexico. That seems to be like the big focus on what happens. BYD isn't big in Mexico already. What happens if those China tries to bring vehicles from Mexico into the US that way? In the short term, it seems more reasonable than possibly importing directly from China, especially given tariffs and what we see going on right now.

是的，看，一方面，这些关税虽然现在没有中国车辆进口，但它们确实保护了美国的就业岗位。这是一个方面。另一方面，你可以说这实际上对消费者来说是通货膨胀的，对消费者没有好处。这并不符合我们自由市场应该运作的方式。如果你仔细想想，我同意迈克尔的观点，长期来看，中国车辆将进入美国市场。我和许多经销商交谈过，似乎每个人都担心墨西哥。这似乎是大家关注的焦点。比亚迪在墨西哥并不大。如果中国试图通过墨西哥将车辆运入美国，会发生什么情况呢？从短期来看，这似乎比直接从中国进口更合理，尤其考虑到关税和现在正在发生的事情。

Yasi, here's my question. For the last four years, let's call it maybe three to be really fair. The US auto industry was really focused on new EVs and new models. The Ford F-150 EV is a hundred thousand dollar vehicle. Why did nobody make a twenty thousand dollar entry level EV that could have perhaps forestalled the arrival of this Chinese competition? Well, it's interesting you say a hundred thousand dollars because I believe that's how much Ford has actually asked or losing on every EV they sell on a net basis. So it's pretty bad. But to answer your question, so what happened was we had a decade of low interest rates vehicle prices crept up. Stellantis is the notorious example where they increased prices from 2019 all the way through about 2024 by about 50%. And so what you had was you had this decade of just zero interest rates. People were affording more expensive vehicles and cheap vehicles were simply not a thing anymore.

亚思，这是我的问题。过去的四年，我们大家可以说是三年，才说得很公平。美国汽车行业真的很注重新的电动车和新车型。福特F-150电动车是一辆价值十万美元的车。为什么没有人制造一辆二万美元的入门级电动车，或许可以延缓这种中国竞争的到来呢？嗯，你说一百万美元真有趣，因为我相信福特实际上要求每辆电动车的净亏损就是这么多。所以情况很糟糕。但回答你的问题，发生了什么是，在过去十年利率很低，车价一直在涨。斯泰兰蒂斯就是一个臭名昭著的例子，他们把价格从2019年增加到大约2024年，涨了大约50%。所以就出现了这十年利率为零，人们负担得起更贵的车，而便宜的车基本上不存在的情况。

The American consumer got hooked on luxury vehicles, bigger vehicles, more options, more features. Well, guess what? Interest rates are not zero anymore. Right. Today, actually I tweeted yesterday that the average interest rate on a new car to new auto and today is nearly 10%, right? 10% on a new car. That's a 20 plus year record. And so you're in an environment where consumer expectations need to retract. I mean, people can't afford this. And so, but we've built up to this point in the economy. And so you have a really, really problematic environment where the vehicle prices are a lot higher.

美国消费者开始追求豪华车、更大的车型、更多的选择和更多的功能。嗯，猜猜看? 利率不再是零了。对。今天实际上我在昨天推特上发表了一条消息，新车的平均利率几乎接近10%，对吧? 新车的利率是10%。这创下了20多年的记录。所以你处在一个消费者期望需要收缩的环境中。我是说，人们买不起这些东西。但是我们已经发展到这个经济点了。所以你面对着一个非常非常棘手的环境，车辆价格要高得多。

I would say exactly. And perhaps part of the issue to your point is, is it true that US people are not going to make a difference in the market. And I think that the US automakers, including Tesla, can't produce a $20,000 rival to cheap Chinese EVs without massive losses. And if that's the case, shouldn't we have just subsidized their ability to do so so that they could, again, kind of organically stay ahead of what's coming? Yeah, it could be. I think there hasn't been a large focus on it for the last, you know, several years decade, really. So now the market is starting to realize, wait, consumers want some consumers want EVs, many more want hybrid.

我想要明确地说。也许你说的问题的一部分是，美国人是否不会在市场上产生影响。我认为，包括特斯拉在内的美国汽车制造商无法生产一款能与便宜的中国电动汽车竞争的价位为20000美元的车型，而不会造成巨大损失。如果是这种情况，难道我们不应该资助他们做到这一点，以便他们可以有机会保持领先地位吗？是的，可能是这样。我认为在过去的几年里，真的没有太重视这个问题。所以现在市场开始意识到，等待，有些消费者想要电动汽车，更多的人想要混合动力汽车。

And so maybe we should rethink our strategies and really focus on what the consumer wants, right? We overbuilt supply for the last five years when it came to EVs and that we got ahead of ourselves. And so now we're kind of getting back to balance. And I think your point, you know, time will tell, I think the manufacturers are realizing that it is a different economy. I don't know if we're going to go to cheaper cars, to be honest with you. I think what's more likely is we're going to see higher leasing penetration with consumers and alternatives to traditional financing because that does lower your payment. You say 15, 20%. And so that's sort of been the bridge for consumers.

所以也许我们应该重新思考我们的策略，真正关注消费者想要的东西，是吧？在过去五年，我们对电动汽车的供应过剩了，我们超前了自己。现在我们正在重新找回平衡。我认为你说得对，时间会告诉我们，制造商们意识到这是一个不同的经济形势。老实说，我不知道我们是否会选择更便宜的汽车。我认为更有可能的是，我们将看到消费者对租赁的接受度增加，以及传统融资的替代方案，因为这会降低你的付款额。你可以节省15%到20%的费用。这对消费者来说是一种“桥梁”。

So you kind of answered my question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. You talk to a lot of car dealers. What do dealers tell you about the current market? And what are dealers telling the manufacturers about what customers want? Dealers have been very vocal to the manufacturers that they have over swung the pendulum within the EV market, right? I want to be very clear. I think there's phenomenal EVs on the market and it's a growing market. And I think it's going to continue growing.

所以你在某种程度上回答了我的问题，但我还是要问一下。你和很多汽车经销商交流过。经销商对现在的市场有什么看法？他们告诉制造商有关顾客需求的情况吗？经销商向制造商表达了他们对电动车市场过度偏离的强烈意见，对吧？我想要非常清楚地说明一点。我认为市场上有一些非常出色的电动车，市场也在不断增长。我认为这个市场会继续增长。

But the pendulum swung too far, right? We overbuilt supply of the EVs that people don't want. Many of these are, you know, frankly, Tesla has been the leader. They still command about 50% market share. But even they have dropped their prices, you know, 20 to 50% over the last year and a half. And so, you know, EVs are out of having paid the higher price.

但摆动太过极端了，对吧？我们过度建设了人们不需要的电动车供应。其中许多，你知道的，坦率地说，特斯拉一直是领导者。他们仍然占据约50％的市场份额。但即使他们在过去一年半时间里也降低了价格，降幅在20％到50%之间。所以，你知道，购买了高价的电动车现在可能会有点后悔。