How to Change the World (Ion Stoica, Executive Chairman & Former CEO of Databricks; & Co-Founder of Conviva)
发布时间 2019-11-21 20:00:40 来源
中英文字稿 
I'm very happy to welcome to the podcast Charles Moldown Steve Asano, my fellow general parkers at foundation capital. Welcome to show guys.
我非常高兴欢迎我们在基金资本公司的同事Charles Moldown Steve Asano加入我们的播客节目。欢迎大家来到节目。
Wait, wait, you've got a podcast? In a world. No, no Steve. Yeah man. No, we've got to be serious here. In the first four times.
等等，等等，你有播客节目吗？在一个世界里。不，不是史蒂夫。是的，朋友。不，我们必须认真对待这个问题。前四次中。
意思是：对话中的一方发现对方有一个播客节目，但另一方已经开始谈别的话题。第四句话中可能出现了一些遗漏，但整体上可以理解为对于某些主题，已经进行了多次讨论。
So I asked Charles and Steve to come in the podcast and I'm now starting to regret that decision. But I asked them because we have some great news to share with everyone.
所以我邀请了Charles和Steve参加播客，现在我开始后悔了这个决定。但我邀请他们是因为我们有一些好消息要与大家分享。
Charles, you want to do the honors? Uh sure I should.
查尔斯，你想主持这件事吗？嗯，好的，我可以这么做。
意思是有人让Charles来主持某件事情，他同意了并表示自己可以这么做。
Hi everyone, I'm Charles Moldown General Partner at Foundation Capital. First, for anyone not very familiar with foundation, here's just a quick tour. We're an early stage venture capital firm we were founded almost 25 years ago and we manage about three billion dollars of committed capital, which by the way we've helped convert into over three hundred billion dollars of market cap.
大家好，我是Foundation Capital的一般合伙人Charles Moldown。首先，对于那些对Foundation不太熟悉的人，我为你们做个快速介绍。我们是一家早期风险投资公司，成立近25年，管理着约30亿美元的委托资本，顺便说一句，我们已经帮助这些资本转化为了超过3,000亿美元的市值。
Woohoo. Yeah, we've got a record of 28 IPOs which feels really good, including a real whopper and Netflix. Some people don't know this, but it's only one of five companies started in the past quarter century with a market cap greater than a hundred billion. But let's not forget some of the more recent successes like Sunrun, Lending Club, Two Mogul and Cheg.
哇呼。是啊，我们已经有了28个IPO的记录，感觉真的很好，其中一个真正的大亨是Netflix。有些人可能不知道，但它只是过去25年创立的五家市值超过一千亿美元的公司之一。但我们也不要忘记一些最近的成功案例，比如Sunrun、Lending Club、Two Mogul和Cheg。
Now the big news we're really here to talk about today is that we're announcing that we've raised our ninth fund, a three hundred and fifty million dollar fund that are highly paid brand new experts have coined, wait for it Foundation Capital. Fun nine.
今天我们真正要谈论的大新闻是，我们宣布我们筹集了我们的第九个基金，一个三亿五千万美元的基金，我们高薪聘请的全新专家团队命名为“Foundation Capital”，就是九号基金。
Whoa, time to kill those creatives. Anyway,
哇，是时候杀掉那些创意人了。不管怎样，
Steve, do you want to tell folks what we plan to do with the three hundred and fifty million?
史蒂夫，你想告诉大家我们打算用三亿五千万做什么吗？
Cowboy hats from Gucci. No wait, that's that other firm up on Sandhill. So I'm Steve Vassalo, the third general partner in our Foundation Capital Triumbrut. With Foundation nine, the plan is to continue our laser to the moon focus on partnering with extraordinary early stage entrepreneurs who are trying to build the greatest companies of our time.
古驰出产的是牛仔帽，不对，那是在山丘上的另一家公司。我是 Foundation Capital Triumbrut 的第三位总合伙人 Steve Vassalo。Foundation nine 的计划是继续我们“瞄准月球”的重点关注，与那些试图建立本时代最伟大公司的非凡初创企业家合作。
We do this one thing and we do it well, the Kentucky fraud strategy. We make 10 to 12 new investments a year to ensure that each of our startups gets the attention and assistance that they need to break out. And Steve, let's not forget that in addition to the three of us, we've got a pretty amazing investor team and operations team sitting right behind us. With some very impressive additions that we plan to announce real soon.
我们专注于做好一件事——肯塔基欺诈策略。每年我们会进行10到12次新投资，确保每个初创公司都得到所需的关注和帮助，以实现突破。另外，我们还有一个非常棒的投资团队和运营团队，他们坐在我们身后。我们很快会宣布一些非常厉害的新成员加入我们的团队。
And let's not forget, huge thanks to the killer LPs who've trusted us with their money. And do any entrepreneurs out there? The whole reason Foundation Capital exists is to support remarkable women and men who are working to build transformative businesses.
不要忘记，非常感谢那些信任我们管理资金的出色有力的有价证券。还有任何企业家吗？Foundation Capital的存在是为了支持那些努力建立变革性企业的杰出男女。
So if you're someone who dreams big and wouldn't stop, if you have the ambition and daring to build a generationally important company right on. And if you're working an idea that's a fit for investment thesis, then come find us at foundationcapital.com.
如果你是那种有远大梦想并且永不放弃的人，如果你有追求建立世代重要公司的雄心和勇气，如果你正在经营一个符合投资论点的想法，那么请来 foundationcapital.com 找到我们。
Well said, Ashu. Well said. Thanks guys for joining me to podcast. Thanks, Ashu. Thanks as you. Is that it? Yeah.
说得好，阿舒。说得好。感谢大家加入我一起播客。谢谢，阿舒。也谢谢你。这就是全部内容吗？是的。
You know, Ashu, you sound a lot taller on this podcast than in real life. You're a Charles. You look a lot older in person. What do you guys want to order for lunch? You know, I hope that didn't sound too much like a commercial. Totally.
你知道吗，Ashu，你在这个播客中听起来比现实生活中高得多。你看起来比实际年龄要老很多。你们想点什么午餐？哎呀，我希望这听起来不像太商业化了。完全同意。
Anyway, anyway, guys, how about that great company? We saw earlier today. Why don't we spend some time talking about that? A robot renegade company. We really need to get back to our nature. I really better.
无论如何，各位，今天早些时候我们见到了一家很棒的公司，怎么样，我们花点时间聊聊它吧？它是一个叛逆的机器人公司，我们真的需要回归自然。我真的应该去做了。
From foundation capital, this is how to be to be a CEO. They'll show about how to scale your enterprise startup and how to grow from founder to CEO. I'm Ashu guard, general partner at foundation capital. Joining me today is Jan stoica, who's a professor at Berkeley. He was the co director of the amp lab at Berkeley and is now the director of the RISE lab. In addition to that, he also has co founded two very successful companies.
这是如何成为CEO的过程，来自Foundation Capital的建议。他们将向您展示如何扩大您的企业初创公司，并从创始人成长为CEO。我是Ashu Guard，Foundation Capital的普通合伙人。今天和我一起是Jan Stoica，他是伯克利大学的教授，曾是伯克利大学的AMP实验室的联合主任，现在是RISE实验室的主任。除此之外，他还共同创办了两个非常成功的公司。
Jan is the co founder of Conviva, one of the early pioneers in applying machine learning and AI to the video infrastructure space. He also co founded and was CEO of Databricks, which is really the pioneer in building out the next generation infrastructure platform for machine learning.
Jan是Conviva的联合创始人，该公司是早期将机器学习和人工智能应用于视频基础设施领域的先驱之一。他还共同创立并担任Databricks的CEO，Databricks是构建下一代机器学习基础设施平台的先驱。
Thank you Jan for joining us today.
感谢Jan今天加入我们。
Thanks for having me Ashu.
谢谢你邀请我，Ashu。
So Jan, you've gone through a founding journey twice. Tell us a little bit about that. What motivated you start two companies?
所以，Jan，你已经走过两次创业之路。简单介绍一下吧。是什么激励你创办了两家公司？
I think the main things motivates you is sometimes to have impact, to change the world at some degree. And for instance, in the case of Conviva, we started all the way back in 2006. And at that point, the video was starting to become a content which is distributed over the internet. It was, we look at that like many others at that point as a big potential and at the future in which the video will be, all the video will be distributed over the internet.
我认为主要的动力是有时想要产生影响，以某种程度改变世界。例如，就Conviva这个公司而言，我们一开始于2006年。那时候，视频开始在互联网上分发。我们像其他人一样，看到了这种方式的巨大潜力和视频在未来将全部在互联网上分发的趋势。
And then we look at the challenges and the problems which are faced by the internet at that time to handle that massive data distribution. And as others at that point, we started to be here to peer technology. Yes, we do. To move, to not congest the core of the internet and keep as much as possible data at the edge of the internet or the aggregate bandwidth was higher. So that's kind of the start. And you know, it was very exciting and we are thinking that we can make a huge impact because it was forecast and today this is true. The majority of traffic in the internet is video.
然后，我们看到互联网在处理大量数据分发时面临的挑战和问题。在那时的情况下，和其他人一样，我们开始采用点对点技术。是的，我们是这样做的。为了避免拥塞互联网核心，我们尽可能将数据放在互联网边缘或集成带宽更高的地方。这就是开始。你知道的，这非常令人兴奋，我们认为我们可以产生巨大的影响，因为预测今天这是正确的。互联网上的大部分流量都是视频。
So if we can move the needle about improving the quality, reducing the cost of distributing the video traffic that would have significant impact over the entire internet traffic. So that was Conviva. We respect the data bricks that was, we started, it come from the research we've done in Amblab and there was starting actually pretty soon, you know, it's around 2006, we started to work on the big data area.
如果我们能够改善视频流量的质量并降低分发成本，那将对整个互联网流量产生重大影响。这就是Conviva。我们非常尊重Data Bricks，因为它来自我们在Amblab进行的研究，从大数据领域着手，大概是在2006年左右开始的。
It's very early on. It was after Google published their MapReduce papers and GFS Google file system and then Hadoop was introduced to the first open source, a realization of these Google tools. And then again we started to like academic started to look at the systems, starting to look at the challenges or early systems and try to solve some of these challenges in terms of better scheduling and resource management and things like that.
这是很早以前的事情了。在 Google 发布了他们的 MapReduce 论文和 GFS (Google 文件系统) 之后，Hadoop 被引入到了第一个开源平台上，成为了这些 Google 工具的实现。接着，学术界开始关注这些系统，并尝试解决一些早期系统中的问题，例如更好的调度和资源管理等等。
And then we started to develop software systems to make it easier to process these huge amounts of data and to use a cluster more efficiently. One of the first project was Mesos, which now it's also a company Mesosphere, which allows you to multiplex a cluster to run at the same time multiple workloads, data workloads. And then on top of that we build Spark.
然后我们开始开发软件系统，以使处理这些庞大数据变得更容易，并更有效地使用群集。其中一个最早的项目是Mesos，现在也成为了公司Mesosphere，它允许您多路复用集群，同时运行多个工作负载和数据负载。然后我们在此基础上构建了Spark。
So this project started in 2009 in the spring actually Mesos was a class project and Spark soon after that. And Spark was to perform big data at very high speeds and interactively and also to support very well machine learning. So then we developed Spark and we released it in 2010 and it started to become you know quite good get traction because the way we solve the problem is to is to keep to optimize it for in memory data processing.
这个项目始于2009年的春天，实际上Mesos是一个课程项目，紧接着是Spark。Spark的目的是以非常高的速度和互动性处理大数据，并支持非常好的机器学习。接着，我们开发了Spark，并在2010年发布了它。由于我们解决问题的方式是针对内存数据处理进行优化，因此Spark开始变得不错并引起了很大注意。
So if and it's that's one aspect and the other aspect was has a more powerful APA's and just map areas. So we can do iterative computation much faster the data identifies at this and of course if the data is in memory you can also do query much faster.
如果说，这是其中一个方面，另一个方面就是具有更强大的APA和地图区域。这样我们可以更快地进行迭代计算，识别数据，当然，如果数据在内存中，您也可以更快地进行查询。
Yann having been the founder of two companies you've had to deal with two very different boards. What are the lessons you've learned from dealing with half a dozen different VCs?
Yann创办了两家公司，你必须要处理两个非常不同的董事会。你从与六个不同的风险投资家打交道中学到了哪些教训？
意思是，Yann创办了两家公司，这两家公司的董事会是非常不同的，这让他学到了很多东西。他还与六个不同的风险投资家打过交道，也从中学到了一些教训。
Well I show it's including myself. I do things I suppose of all let me say that I was first you know to have very supportive boards in both cases especially with conviva events through ups and downs and the word those very supportive. I think that one thing to keep in mind is that in terms of decisions and what to do is a company and so first of your sleep you need to listen but you have to make the decisions as CEO and the way to think about is that you know you are in the best position to know your business to know your technical assets to know the market you spend 24 by seven doing this right.
我想说的是，我也参与其中。我做了一些事情，我想首先声明的是，在两个案例中，我是第一个拥有非常支持性团队的人，特别是在经历了起起落落以及困难时期，他们一直很支持我。我认为要牢记的一件事是，关于公司的决策和所做的事情，首先你需要听取建议，但你作为CEO必须做出决策。你应该这样想：你最了解你的业务、你的技术资产和市场，你花24小时不停地做这些事情，你是最好的决策者。
So no matter how smarter people in the board they will not have the same size they are not so close to the ground. And they come with a sliver of time when they jump in and jump out. They have a sliver of time so if the board member makes that a decision for you then it's something very wrong right. Now of course you need the board members are very you know invaluable because it's also they've seen a lot so they have a pattern matching you know many of us you want to company so you didn't see a lot. So but you can use that as an additional information you know what how a particular company you can learn more about how a particular company what did it do in particular case or in the other case which are similar to yours.
无论董事会中的人多聪明，他们也不会具备相同的经验，因为他们不像实际操作者那样与实际情况更接近。他们只会在某一段时间内参与并离开。如果董事会成员替你做出决定，那么这就是非常错误的。当然，董事会成员是非常宝贵的，因为他们见多识广，能够进行模式匹配，而我们中的许多人则没有这方面的经验。因此，你可以将他们的经验作为额外的信息来学习关于某个公司的情况，以及他们在类似于你所面临的情况下所做的决策。
You can use the information to make the decision on but you own the decisions and you are accountable for the decision. So ask a lot of questions take a lot of input but own the decision and make it yourself. There is no question. Even if you believe that and you can never can go to the board oh I make that decision because you told me so. It's always your decision. That makes it an assist.
你可以使用信息来做决策，但你要自己承担责任。因此，要多问问题，多听意见，但最终要自己做出决定。毫无疑问，即使你认为某个决定是因为别人告诉你的，你也不能将责任推给他人。这样才能体现你的身份是一个助手。
The other thing Jan you've had the privilege of having choices in both companies of investors because there have always been multiple term sheets and multiple options. So one or two things that were the most important to you when you were trying to decide who is the right investor and the right board member for you. You know there are many many dimensions but one it's about four members who you know who knows obviously the market you are in who can because they can help with that you can help with introduction as of ours. Customers, relationships and the other thing is you want investors which will not overreact. It's easy you know some of the investors maybe you don't want the investor who are basically saying when things are going well they are disengaged when things are going a little bit bumpy they are going to overreact and so you want someone who you know have seen enough so is going to you know leave you some room.
Jan，另一个你所拥有的特权是在这两家公司的投资者中有选择的机会，因为总是有多个条款表和多个选项可供选择。所以在你试图决定谁是适合你的投资者和适合你的董事会成员时，有一两件事情对你来说最重要。你知道这有很多维度，但其中之一是要有了解你所处市场的人，因为他们可以帮助你介绍我们的客户关系。另一件事是你希望的投资者不会反应过度。很容易你知道，一些投资者也许不是你想要的投资者，当事情顺利时他们将毫不关心，但当情况出现一点波动时，他们就会反应过度。因此，你希望找到一个曾经经历过足够多事情的人，他能给你留一些空间。
I think you were there and I always tell people the night is darkest before dawn and it just changes around the corner but sometimes investors and board members don't have the patience to wait until the movie plays out. Yeah one very similar quote I heard is like since our number as better they seem since our number is good as this. So but that's important. It's important about chemistry because you are going to be always this board members you know like yes right you are going to meet you are going to ask for advice you know.
我认为你当时在场，而我总是告诉人们黎明前最黑暗，转机就在拐角处，但有时投资者和董事会成员没有耐心等待电影播放完。是的，我听过一个非常类似的引述，就像我们的数字更好一样，因为我们的数字很好。但这很重要。这关乎化学反应，因为你将永远是这个董事会成员，你知道，是的，你会遇到你，你会要求建议。
It's a ten year marriage with no divorce. You are going to ask for forgiveness. What other advice do you have for founders you know who are first-time CEOs who may be brilliant technologists but in many cases have never really run or done sales or all the aspects that come with being CEO. Try to learn as much as possible on the job. You can read from books from your investors from your friends who have done it. You can reach to other people in your situations ask for their advice so try to learn as much as you can. You are going to make mistakes but you know you want to minimize those mistakes. The number of mistakes so that's number one.
这是一段十年的婚姻，没有离婚。你要求原谅。你还有什么建议给首次担任CEO的创始人们，他们可能是出色的技术人员，但在很多情况下并没有真正的运营或销售经验以及与担任CEO相关的方方面面。尽可能在工作中学习。你可以从书籍、投资者、有经验的朋友中学习。你可以联系处于同一境况的其他人，向他们寻求建议，因此尽可能多地学习。你会犯错，但你知道想要将这些错误最小化。错误数量是关键。
The number two you surround yourself when you the time to hire executive people have done it right. In many cases if you are the first time CEO and so forth especially if you are technologist you don't know many things you don't know so it's you don't want to bring someone else like you to learn on a job it's enough for one to learn on a job so better you have people who can teach you. So hire a sales rep who's been a sales rep. That's someone who's learning how to be one. It's exact. It's exactly. So I think this are the tools of the most important. The third one it's again in need to learn try to put the process in places early as possible.
当你有时间雇用高管时，围绕自己的第二件事是选择正确的人。许多情况下，如果你是首席执行官（CEO），特别是如果你是技术人员，你很多事情都不知道，因此你不希望带一个像你一样的人来现场学习，只有一个人在学习就足够，最好找一个能教你的人。所以雇佣一位曾经是销售代表的人，他们是正在学习如何成为一名销售代表的人，非常合适。所以我认为这些工具是最重要的。第三个工具是需要学习，尽早把流程放到位。
You know you ask me what I would have like to do more maybe put some of this press process in place earlier. Every single engineering on reviews. People reviews. People reviews. These are incredible important and if you don't do them earlier it's going to compromise. It can compromise your growth. You also use a lot of scaling issues and sometimes it's a stumble and sometimes it's a huge fall if you know. The entertainment of the best people. The other thing is that you have no time. Everything happens fast so you need to move extremely fast and one way to think about that you know is like you need in four years right better you have show significant success.
你知道你问我我更想早些时候就把一些媒体宣传流程做好。每一项工程审查，人员审查，都非常重要，如果你不早些做这些，会影响你的发展。而且你还会遭遇很多扩张问题，有时候是一个失误，有时候是一次巨大的失败，如果你知道了的话。招募最优秀的人才也很重要。另外，你没有时间了，一切都发生得很快，所以你需要极速行动，有一种思考方式，就是在四年内展示显著的成功。
Why? Because if you don't show you are going to best employees you are going to be best. You're going to move on to the next startup because they're best. Especially when you see the compiler right. So I think that's that's exactly important. So that's also the process is very important because career growth and so forth are not extremely important. So if I would go back you said the things I would want to do better.
为什么？因为如果你不能展示你有着最好的员工素质，你就会被更好的员工所取代，然后你就会离开当前的创业公司去寻找更好的机会。特别是当你看到编译器的时候，你就会知道自己的业务素质是否能达到最优。所以我认为这是非常重要的。因此，过程也是非常重要的，因为职业成长等方面也是非常重要的。所以如果我回去的话，你说我想做得更好的事情。
So you've started two companies and each time you've had to step away from your professorship at Berkeley. In the case of GitHubRick you had a very successful lab, the AMP lab. So talk about what motivated you to both to start the company and what were some of the doubts you had. It's okay.
所以，您已经创办了两家公司，每次都需要离开伯克利的教授岗位。在 GitHubRick 的案例中，您有一个非常成功的实验室，AMP 实验室。因此，请谈一谈您创办公司的动机是什么，以及您有哪些疑虑。没关系。
Yeah. In Academy you developed technologies. It developed solutions but ultimately you want to make an impact. There are many ways to make an impact. And Academy needs, again, its impact means how many papers cite your work or the techniques being used by others to develop their own systems or solve their own problems. But another dimension of the Sarsis is about how many people lives you are going to touch. How much difference you are going to make in this world. And I think this is what motivates motivates me.
在学术界，你发展技术和解决问题，但最终你想要产生影响。有许多方式可以产生影响。学术界需要产生影响，这意味着有多少篇论文引用了你的工作，或者其他人使用你的技术来发展他们自己的系统或解决自己的问题。但萨尔西斯还有另一个维度，那就是你将触及多少人的生活，你将在这个世界上产生多大的差异。我认为这就是激励我的东西。
It's like people they say you want to change the world. Yeah, I mean it's a cliche but it's a little bit of that. And just to give you a sense about right now, Databricks, Executive Chairman. So I'm not sparing my full time Databricks. But the one thing I am focusing is developing verticals in particular healthcare and life sciences. Why is of course going into verticals. It's also it's strategically important. It's a strategical important. But at the same time it's meaningful. Right? It's like if your technology helps a little bit to cure diseases, self-save lives is very rewarding. So that's impact.
人们常说你想改变世界。是的，这是一个陈词滥调，但它确实有一定的道理。现在我担任Databricks执行主席，我没有抽出全部时间来做这件事。但我注重发展特定的行业，特别是医疗保健和生命科学方面的垂直领域。为什么选择这些领域呢？当然，这是出于战略考虑。但同时，这也是有意义的。对吧？如果你的技术能够帮助治愈疾病，挽救生命，那是非常有意义的。这就是影响力。
Moving from academia to a sharp is a very different career and being very successful and one doesn't mean you'll be successful in the other. What went through your mind in terms of questions and doubts? I think the question is always it's about you know are you going to be successful? Is that a decision? Is a bet? Are you going to make? How are they going to be to pen out? Right? It's like you know it's you know you bet on the cloud. You didn't work out. You look like an idiot. Right? Everyone told you to do the other things. Especially because everyone else told you to do that. Yes.
从学术界转向商业界是一种非常不同的职业生涯，而且在一个领域非常成功并不意味着你在另一个领域也会成功。在你的思维中会有哪些问题和疑虑呢？
我认为问题总是围绕着你是否能成功。这是一个决定吗？是一种赌注吗？它们会怎样展现出来？就像你押注云上一样。如果它无法实现，你看起来就像个傻瓜。对吧？特别是因为其他人都告诉你应该做另外一些事情。
Also the fact when you hire someone right it's very hard you know never I never hired SVP or self so far. And sometimes people who you respect tell you hire this guy and you kind of you are uncomfortable to do it. Are you going to say oh I this guy knows what I'm doing he's talking about I don't you know I don't have experience I'm going to make that decision or not. These are kind of very hard decisions. And you know some and it takes a bunch of good a good decision to go your way to get some confidence.
雇佣合适的人是很难的，尤其是我从来没有雇佣过SVP或自己的员工。有时候，你尊重的人会告诉你去雇佣某个人，但你可能会觉得不舒服。你会说：“这个人知道我在做什么，他在说什么，我没有经验，我应该做出这个决定吗？”这些都是非常艰难的决定。你需要做出很多明智的决定，才能获得信心。
But I think that what I found is that the more nervous you are is the more kind of a little bit more paranoid you are but you know easy is going to the more little doubts you have it's actually you sometimes it helps you to perform even better right? Yeah you perform with a pressure. Right it's it's nothing for granted you know it's you need to be very syncs from all the you know all the angles you need to push yourself it's so that's that's what also what I found. So if you are maybe too comfortable sometimes you you can get cocky and make yeah yeah make ratchet things yeah. So the self a little bit of self-doubt I think it's very healthy.
我认为我发现的是，你越紧张，就会有一点点多疑，但是你知道，容易的事情也会有更多的怀疑，但有时它实际上可以帮助你更好地表现，对吗？对，你在压力下表现得更好。这是不是理所当然的事情，你需要从各个方面很敏感，需要自我推动，这也是我发现的。所以如果你太舒适了，有时你会变得自负，做出错误的决定。因此，一点自我怀疑是非常健康的。
Thanks Jan for doing this it's been really fun talking to you my pleasure. Thanks for having me. That's it for this episode you can find past episodes and subscribe to future ones on iTunes, Stitcher and SoundCloud.
感谢Jan的参与，和你聊天很有趣，我也很享受。感谢你邀请我。这期节目就到这里了，你可以在iTunes、Stitcher和SoundCloud上找到过去的节目并订阅未来的节目。
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